Xen And The Issue Of Swap

Jun 4, 2007

I have talked with the moderators and they have agreed that I can start a new thread to clarify the issue of Xen and swapping as long the discussion remains technical.

For people who are curious, I would first like to explain why this is important. What we have here is someone making a specific technical accusation against Xen, and if it is indeed crucial, it needs to be solved, or otherwise people have to know it before they get into Xen.

Claim Number 1: The original claim is that users can create arbitrarily large swap and this can lead to the equivalent of overselling.

Fact: Arbitrarily large swap has absolutely zero effect on a normal system, since Linux treats swap as an auxiliary storage, and will not use it unnecessarily. Linux will always use the RAM to the full, but swap is used only when all the buffers have been cleared. If you run free on a dedicated hardware, you will see that swap usage is most of the times zero, even though you have assigned a very large swap to the system. In fact, you can try this by simply increasing the swap to very huge value, you will see that Linux will ignore it completely.

For large swap to cause a problem, the user not only has to assign a large swap, he has to run a really huge workload on his limited RAM, and this being physically impossible, will cripple his vps long before it has any serious impact on the host.

I think the above has been agreed to by the person who made the initial claim.

Claim Number 2 Merely having a swap can lead to vps getting slowed down.

Fact ; The use of swap does not mean thrashing .

Thrashing is a technical term, and it means that the application is registering a swap hit every few instructions. This is rare in normal systems, because of a property of programs that execution is always localized. That is, at any particular time, a certain portion of the program will be continuously being executed, and other portions would be idle. Linux has algorithms that will swap out the Least Recently Used page, and this will mean that the system will not run into too many swap hits.

Now again, like in the earlier case, there will be trouble if the vps customer is trying to run a 1GB workload in a 64MB RAM. This will actually cripple his vps, which is what's the right thing to happen. So normal usage of Swap will not lead to disk I/O, since Linux has explicit algorithms to reduce swap usage.

So for minor OverUsage of memory:

For virtuozzo: the application will crash

For Xen: there will be a very minor degradation of quality. And sometimes it won't have any affect at all, since as I said, just because swap drive is non-empty doesn't mean that linux is constantly swapping out.

So summarizing:

a) Inordinately large swap has zero effect on Linux

b) Non-empty swap doesn't mean that the system is registering swap hits. For normal workloads, the swap hits will be very minimal.

And an extra advice is that if you are using Xen, don't ever use snapshoting, as it will double the disk I/O, and the worst thing is that the vps that's causing this will not even be penalized. The overhead will be completely borne by the system.

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Apr 19, 2009

What would cause a Linux server to run out of swap? Would it be a memory leak? This happened today to my server and it had to be forcefully rebooted by the data center.

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Apr 25, 2008

My server load is up to 20 sometimes, all RAM is used but only a very little SWAP is used (never go above 3M). IOwait is also very high

top - 09:55:33 up 94 days, 3:35, 2 users, load average: 19.09, 9.43, 6.18
Tasks: 327 total, 2 running, 325 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 38.0% us, 2.0% sy, 0.0% ni, 0.0% id, 59.5% wa, 0.0% hi, 0.5% si
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Jul 6, 2007

do i need to upgrade my server if it looks like this?

I have one website running on it.

[url]
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Mar 31, 2009

I've got a dedicated with LW.

I've had it for a while and during that time I've never seen the swap memory go over 20%.

A month or so ago, I had the server upgraded to 8GB of ram to make room for more planned sites.

Since then, the swap memory has gone rampant. It regulary goes to 93% used with less than 20% of the regular ram and really no load on the server.

I've contacted support twice about it and was told don't worry it's normal.

From what I've read in the cpanel forum, no it's not normal and may in fact be caused by bad ram chips and if it hits 100% could freeze the server.

There are no processes or users causing it, so It's something else.

Has anybody had this type of problem that they resolved and could share what they did to resolve it?

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Jul 22, 2008

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Mar 1, 2008

i want to know why the swap in the server didn't work he is always 208k used

see my top status

top - 09:41:51 up 4 days, 12 min, 2 users, load average: 2.05, 3.11, 3.33
Tasks: 185 total, 2 running, 181 sleeping, 2 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 0.7% us, 1.0% sy, 1.6% ni, 92.4% id, 4.3% wa, 0.0% hi, 0.0% si
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cat /etc/fstab

LABEL=/ / ext3 defaults,usrquota 1 1
LABEL=/boot /boot ext3 defaults 1 2
none /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0
none /dev/shm tmpfs noexec,nosuid 0 0
LABEL=/home /home ext3 defaults,usrquota 1 2
none /proc proc defaults 0 0
none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
LABEL=/tmp /tmp ext3 defaults 1 2
LABEL=/usr /usr ext3 defaults,usrquota 1 2
LABEL=/var /var ext3 defaults,usrquota 1 2
LABEL=SWAP-sda7 swap swap pri=0,defaults 0 0
/dev/sdb1 /hdd1 ext3 defaults,usrquota 0 0
/tmp /var/tmp ext3 defaults,bind,noauto 0 0
/dev/hdb /media/cdrecorder auto pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0
/dev/scd0 /media/cdrom auto pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0

My box

WHM 11.15.0 cPanel 11.18.1-R20683
CENTOS Enterprise 4.6 i686 on standard - WHM X v3.1.0

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Feb 20, 2008

Opcode caches have stability problems with some PHP apps:

[url]

I've been trying to get XCache working with gallery2, right now apache has to restart every 2-4 hours but it's been worse at times and it'd be nice to know what's going on

I noticed that both XCache and eAccel use a small amount of swap space all the time, it grows slowly and if I'm lucky enough to go without a segfault it will reach maybe 4MB. That's not a lot but it doesn't happen at all without a PHP cache (swap stays locked at 72kb unless RAM runs out and the server thrashes).

Here's the error and my settings:

[Tue Feb 19 06:19:55 2008] [error] PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /home/cityv4/public_html/gallery/modules/customfield/classes/CustomFieldHelper.class on line 233
[Tue Feb 19 06:19:55 2008] [error] PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /home/cityv4/public_html/gallery/modules/customfield/classes/CustomFieldHelper.class on line 233
[Tue Feb 19 06:19:56 2008] [notice] child pid 31028 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Feb 19 06:19:56 2008] [notice] child pid 10638 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)

[url]

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Jul 22, 2008

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Oct 28, 2007

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How can I achieve this without loosing my files?

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Oct 1, 2007

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Hosting providers runs HyperVM.

So the question. Is it common or is it a misconfiguration? For now I got just 'checking on this for you' and three days of silence from their support.

I'm not opening hosting provider name, but I will if they say "You must pay for more RAM", just because other 5 VPS providers support my VPS servers with swap space.

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May 11, 2007

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Which would be the better option?

Also, in Virtuozzo, will SLM allocation be significantly more beneficial than UBC for a small VPS?

Another question ... DirectAdmin officially claims to be able to run on a minimum of 64MB RAM. How would it perform on a 128 MB VPS ?
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Mar 30, 2009

I have a handful of machines running Rails on CentOS 5, each with 8GB RAM. They're monitored with Nagios, so I get paged if we exceed 80% memory usage usage or 2% swap. FWIW, they're primarily dual x. dual-core Opterons, and we're using PAE.

The problem is that I keep getting paged in the middle of the night for situations where we're using 2-20% swap yet there are still several gigs of RAM free.

On some level, this makes sense -- if nothing is using a big chunk of RAM, we might as well move it out to disk. On the other hand, when there's still several gigs of RAM free, I don't see any point in bothering, especially when it causes me to get paged at 2am.

So my question is threefold:

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Is this a problem other people have? Are others just less aggressive in getting alerted at swap usage, or does this not happen to other people? Our setup is probably not too common (Opterons, PAE, adn 8GB on an older CentOS release?), which makes me think there's a small chance a bona fide bug plays into this somehow.

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May 19, 2009

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Apr 19, 2009

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its a centos / cPanel/WHM based server

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Feb 18, 2007

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top - 14:19:47 up 1 day, 23:07, 1 user, load average: 1.74, 1.93, 1.89
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total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 2026 1877 148 0 61 306
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Dec 2, 2007

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Jan 20, 2007

Quote:

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 1034060 1004864 29196 0 50756 340272
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Is there anything I can do to reduce the swap usage?

Running cpanel, Dual Xeon 3.0ghz with 1 gb ram

Quote:

root@****** [~]# uname -a
Linux ****** 2.6.9-42.0.3.EL.cernsmp #1 SMP Fri Oct 6 12:07:54 CEST 2006 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

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Jan 2, 2007

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Aug 7, 2007

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May 23, 2007

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Jan 25, 2007

I have a server that I have had for a little while now that was runnning perfectly fine. All of the sudden it started just using up a ton of the memory and started using up swap. This has caused the server to slow down and e-mail to stop working. I would upgrade to more memory but I suspect it is someone on the server doing something they shouldn't be. My only reasoning for this is due to the fact that this problem just suddenly arised. I cannot for the life of me determine where this ram usage is coming from.

Here are a few of the errors I have recently got just while logging in..

RIGHT after logging in...
id: cannot find name for group ID 0
id: cannot find name for user ID 0
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top: Unknown terminal "xterm" in $TERM
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bash: /usr/bin/killall: Too many open files in system

I have added 2 screen shots as well. First one (top1) is what happens once I can get the command "top" to actually run (normally takes quite a few tries). Second attachement (top2) is after I sorted by mem usage...

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Mar 24, 2008

I encounter this problem in one of my server today..

Memory is 99% used
Swap is 100% used

top - 20:50:53 up 2 days, 7:05, 2 users, load average: 69.58, 41.63, 24.91
Tasks: 397 total, 57 running, 334 sleeping, 1 stopped, 5 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.9% us, 96.5% sy, 0.1% ni, 0.0% id, 0.0% wa, 0.5% hi, 1.0% si
Mem: 2076300k total, 2027140k used, 49160k free, 1116k buffers
Swap: 5245212k total, 5245212k used, 0k free, 13108k cached

Over my KVM, it just hang. When I try to type something, it shows this on the KVM screen:

[17379796.260000] HighMem 59*4kB 3*8kB 0*16kB 0*32kB 0*64kB 1*128kB 1*256kB 0*512kB 0*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 664kB
[17379796.260000] Swap cache: add 6615861, delete 6615849, find 2695269/27558673, race 0+86
[17379796.260000] Free swap = 0kB
[17379796.260000] Total swap = 5245212kB

Based on the message on screen, what is the message telling me?

[17379796.260000] HighMem 59*4kB 3*8kB 0*16kB 0*32kB 0*64kB 1*128kB 1*256kB 0*512kB 0*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 664kB
[17379796.260000] Swap cache: add 6615861, delete 6615849, find 2695269/27558673, race 0+86

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Apr 14, 2008

Look this:

root@empresarios [~]# free -m
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 2017 1966 50 0 20 1054
-/+ buffers/cache: 892 1125
Swap: 2000 1378 621

U know more than me, but why my dedicated server is taking Swap if as u cann se still have 50 Mb free of RAM?

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Jun 6, 2008

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1) At first I was guessing that the load somehow affected the clock, but you'd think it would slow it down -- but apparently the pace of time was quicker?

2) perhaps the time was wrong in the first place - then upon reboot, ntp sync'd up properly.

3) time was originally correct but after the high load, it somehow erroneously sped up the ticks

Then again, from googling around someone on another forum was saying that the computer clock chip shouldn't ever be affected.

So my question isn't about what cause the load, but why was there a time descrepancy in /var/log/messages, and was it related to the load?

from top:

top - 17:52:32 up 246 days, 23:34, 1 user, load average: 76.52, 75.68, 68.79
Tasks: 192 total, 62 running, 129 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
Cpu(s): 0.0% us, 99.5% sy, 0.0% ni, 0.0% id, 0.0% wa, 0.2% hi, 0.2% si
Mem: 3376168k total, 3281060k used, 95108k free, 256k buffers
Swap: 4192956k total, 4192956k used, 0k free, 95656k cached

from /var/log/messages:

Jun 5 17:34:44 staging kernel: Out of Memory: Killed process 26522 (oracle).
Jun 5 17:41:45 staging sshd(pam_unix)[25223]: session closed for user gin
Jun 5 17:09:50 staging syslogd 1.4.1: restart.

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Oct 27, 2007

My data center happen to install RHEL 4 without a swap partition

Is there anyway to fix it without an OS reload?

Linux OS:
[root@server2 log]# uname -a
Linux 2.6.9-55.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP Tue Sep 25 02:17:24 EDT 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
[root@server2 log]#

Kernel Version(uname -r)
[root@server2 log]# uname -r
2.6.9-55.0.9.ELsmp
[root@server2 log]#
Hardware Information
Clovertown with quad core , dual thing.
4 gb ram.

Control Panel(if any)
Cpanel

[root@server2 sbin]# df -l
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda5 75505212 37384684 34285012 53% /
/dev/sda1 101086 17347 78520 19% /boot
none 2074560 0 2074560 0% /dev/shm
/dev/sda3 25197252 80800 23836476 1% /tmp
/dev/sda2 40313996 7249168 31016944 19% /var
/tmp 25197252 80800 23836476 1% /var/tmp
[root@server2 sbin]#

[root@server2 sbin]# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 146.8 GB, 146815733760 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 17849 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 13 104391 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 14 5112 40957717+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda3 5113 8299 25599577+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda4 8300 17849 76710375 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 8300 17849 76710343+ 83 Linux
[root@server2 sbin]#

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Oct 9, 2007

I've hired *name* to take care of my server, but it's just getting so frustrating, as it seems they can't fix my server/optimize it correctly.

I just want some input as to what the problem is here.

I got them to install lighttpd along with xcache.

After about 15-18 hours, the server's CPU slowly increases to be using 90-90%, giving me the 500 Internal Server Error.

I've asked them to optimize xcache and lighttpd, but I keep getting these responses:

Quote:

The should be pretty optimized. Xcache has limited optimization features.

Quote:

Lighttpd itself is pretty optimized, the problem is php. Php runs as its own binary and theres not many parameters that can be tweaked.

Is that even correct?

-------------------------

So I got them to enable apache, and disable lighttpd.

This time, it's the other way around.

My ram get's completely used up, forcing the server to use Swap; making the load shoot to 50+. CPU usage is fine the entire way.

-------------------------

This has been going back and forth, enabling/disabling lighttpd and re-enabling apache but a problem always comes up each time.

Am I asking for too much?

Server specs;
Intel C2D E6400
4GB Ram

There is only one IPB board on this server - nothing else.

Average users is 70-200 users within 15 minutes.

This is what I'm getting when lighttpd is on:

Code:
top - 22:56:02 up 18:46, 1 user, load average: 23.38, 22.84, 22.44
Tasks: 117 total, 17 running, 100 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 95.0%us, 4.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 0.0%id, 0.0%wa, 0.2%hi, 0.5%si, 0.0%st
Mem: 4147196k total, 1346888k used, 2800308k free, 203144k buffers
Swap: 2907756k total, 0k used, 2907756k free, 712584k cached

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
2401 mysql 15 0 318m 107m 3868 S 44 2.6 49:02.02 /usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-file=/etc/my.cnf --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib
3279 root 15 0 27712 15m 2900 S 12 0.4 10:33.81 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3272 root 16 0 29752 16m 2908 R 11 0.4 10:15.94 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3266 root 15 0 27536 14m 2920 S 11 0.4 10:40.14 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3270 root 16 0 27624 14m 2908 R 11 0.4 10:36.71 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3267 root 16 0 27796 14m 2972 R 10 0.4 10:35.22 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3268 root 15 0 28148 15m 3112 S 10 0.4 10:49.86 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3276 root 16 0 27696 15m 2900 R 10 0.4 10:29.73 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3269 root 16 0 28312 15m 2916 R 10 0.4 10:23.57 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3274 root 16 0 27924 15m 2912 R 10 0.4 10:44.51 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3275 root 16 0 29368 16m 2928 R 9 0.4 10:41.84 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3278 root 15 0 29432 16m 2876 S 9 0.4 10:28.52 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3271 root 16 0 26784 14m 2900 R 9 0.3 10:41.61 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3277 root 16 0 27156 14m 2928 R 9 0.4 10:31.07 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3265 root 15 0 28408 15m 2880 S 8 0.4 10:46.89 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3280 root 16 0 27036 14m 2880 R 8 0.3 10:43.20 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3273 root 15 0 24676 12m 2952 R 8 0.3 10:43.57 /usr/local/lighttpd/bin/php-cgi
3262 root 15 0 13356 11m 632 R 3 0.3 3:04.27 /usr/local/lighttpd/sbin/lighttpd -f /etc/lighttpd.conf
1 root 15 0 2032 648 552 S 0 0.0 0:00.36 init [3]
2 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [migration/0]
3 root 34 19 0 0 0 R 0 0.0 0:00.00 [ksoftirqd/0]
4 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [watchdog/0]
5 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [migration/1]
6 root 34 19 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [ksoftirqd/1]
7 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [watchdog/1]
8 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [events/0]
9 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [events/1]
10 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [khelper]
11 root 11 -5 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [kthread]
15 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [kblockd/0]
16 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0 0.0 0:00.00 [kblockd/1]

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Jun 22, 2009

I'm having an issue with what I believe is Apache. Things will be running nicely, then all of a sudden things will just 'blow up'. Apache seems to fork a bunch of new processes, and it starts ripping into the memory. I've had it essentially eat through all the free memory and swap, and the system will then freeze up as there's no more memory. This is a CentOS server running CPanel, the configuration had been up and running for a long time without problems then this suddenly started happening.

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New To Colo, Would Like Comments About Hot Swap, Redundancy, And Bandwidth

Feb 4, 2008

Considering skipping VPS and going to a colo setup for a handful of sites. Nothing major, so the server will be very entry level, but with redundancy in mind (software RAID1 and 2 nics). But I have a few basic questions:

How good is hot swapping in Linux? This was very hard to me to find out online. I am getting a 1U rack with a hot swap backplane and 2 SATA drives. I won't be using any commercial software with my setup.

How does redundant NIC work? This is new to me and am wondering how this is setup.

I think I can shop around NYC for a 1U slot for around $40 a month. I don't need a lot of transfer, but would like a decent pipe. The thought of 1Mbit sounds unattractive (transfer is around 100KBytes/s, right?). How much would 10Mbit cost? I found some quotes but they seem way too much (I could be wrong).

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